Frances the [long-winded] mute

Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.Good points, all. To whit I replied:
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
19 Comments:
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
,
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k heil hitler
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
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k heil hitler
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
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0
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0
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Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 15 comments
15 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
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At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
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fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
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kk
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kkkkkk
k
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k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:38 PM, bnjmk said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
o
o
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p
p
p
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p
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p
p
p
p
p
p
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k
k
kk
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kkkkkk
k
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k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
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,
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0
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0
0
0
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0
0
00
0\0
0
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k heil hitler
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. . . Culture, Rhetoric, Religiosity, Sophism.
Wednesday, April 13, 2005
Frances the [long-winded] mute
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 16 comments
16 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
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0
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
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j
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l
l
l
l
lll
lll
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l
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0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
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ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
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p
p
p
p
p
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kkkkkk
k
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k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:38 PM, bnjmk said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
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00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
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o
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p
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p
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p
p
p
p
p
p
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kkkkkk
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k
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
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j
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fyhgvkbjnlm
l
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lll
lll
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0
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0
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0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
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00
00
0
0
0
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0
0
0
0
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0\0
0
kl
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ol
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o
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k heil hitler
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At 5:41 PM, nm, said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 15 comments
15 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
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00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
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o
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p
p
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k
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kkkkkk
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k
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
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0
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0
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0
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k heil hitler
At 5:38 PM, bnjmk said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
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fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
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000
000
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0
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0
00
0\0
0
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
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. . . Culture, Rhetoric, Religiosity, Sophism.
Wednesday, April 13, 2005
Frances the [long-winded] mute
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Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 16 comments
16 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
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l
l
l
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0
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0
0
0
000
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0
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000
000
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00
00
0
0
0
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0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
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fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
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000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
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00
00
0
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0
0
0
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0
0
00
0\0
0
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kkkkkk
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k heil hitler
At 5:38 PM, bnjmk said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
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l
lll
lll
l
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0
00
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000
00
0
00
0
0000
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000
00
00
00
0
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0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
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ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
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p
p
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kkkkkk
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k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
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,
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fyhgvkbjnlm
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k heil hitler
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At 5:41 PM, nm, said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 15 comments
15 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
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j
n
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fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
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p
p
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p
p
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p
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p
l
k
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kk
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kkkkkk
k
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k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
p
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p
p
p
p
p
p
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p
p
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k
k
kk
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kkkkkk
k
k
k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:38 PM, bnjmk said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 14 comments
14 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
o
o
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
p
l
k
k
kk
k
kkkkkk
k
k
k
k
k heil hitler
At 5:36 PM, jeuss said...
Email correspondence as record review
The Mars Volta's first album was great. If you would have talked to me a couple years ago, I would have used big, laudatory words and pointed out single drumbeats and anguished wails, to describe it. Clearly evidence of some unearthly genius.
I eventually got over it and formed a more modest opinion of it as a triumph of ambition and experimentation.
their second album, Frances the Mute, is not. Somehow, TMV's logical progression was toward thematic dissonance and self-absorption, I couldn't even bring myself to review it--mostly because a review would have forced me to confront just what I hated about it. My hatred, at the time, was diffuse and directionless.
Then, last night, something magic happened. I was trolling a few blogs and came across this:
Is it just me...
...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?
It was late. I was cranky from writer's block, so I decided to write an email. It looked like this:
"...or is The Mars Volta the new Radiohead?"
For that to be true, TMV would have to make meandering but thematically uniform music with cohesive lyrics and a commitment to craft over ego.
Frances the Mute shows the exact opposite. It's an excuse to play around with bleep machines and indulge teenage lust for gnarly guitar solos set against salsa percussion. Formless prog regurgitate.
Bixler and Rodriguez-Lopez have been preoccupied with flexing lyrical nuts since At the Drive-In, and now that they don't have anyone to ruin their fun, it's all nonsensical poly-syllables and prostitute references.
Further: Radiohead has never written a song title in Latin
TMV=Radiohead might have worked better just after Deloused in the Comatorium. Now they're more like Smashing Pumpkins after the Batman and Robin Soundtrack.
Isamu Jordan graciously replied:
I'm surprised you don't find Frances the Mute to bw "meandering but thematically uniform" (the super-Latin touch being one of many uniform themes throughout the album). You don't get much more meandering than the opening track.
To me, The Mars Volta came up with a relatively unique sound in De-Loused, and then threw all sense of compromise out the window to fully indulge their creativity in Frances, winning over fans while giving the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential. In my little bizarro world, De-Loused is the OK Computer that led to the Kid A equivalent, Frances the Mute (if I were to make a comparison to Smashing Pumpkins, it would be Mellon Collie).
Not that TMV and Radiohead sound remotely alike, but the principles and impact seem to be following the same pattern.
Wasn't Kid A just an excuse to play with new toys?
And I'm as reluctant to call Yorke's lyrics cohesive as I am to say Bixler's are not.
Good points, all. To whit I replied:
That's not a bad analogy really, I get where you're coming from. Though I think there is a crucial difference. You're probably right that both bands have had a stepping off point [Kid A and Frances], distancing themselves from the mainstream, but I think they stepped in opposite directions. Or perhaps, took opposite approaches.
This is my personal thing, but I hate solos [guitar, drum, otherwise] in pop music more than anything. Hate Santana. Barely survived the 80's. They're tangential and destroy a song's rhythm. They represent the worst of rock star hubris.
I also think there is a difference between lyrics that employ veiled imagery and symbolism and lyrics that stab at poesy with mindless polysyllabism.
Compare [from Mars Volta's Miranda, that Ghost . . .]
The nest they made couldn't break you
Along the fallen
Scowled a fence of beaks
But the temple is scathing
Through your veins
They were scaling
Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning
With [from Radiohead's How to Disappear . . .]
I'm not here
This isn't happening
I'm not here, I'm not here
In a little while
I'll be gone
The moment's already passed
Yeah, it's gone
Neither song has a particularly explicit intent, but I think the latter actually means something. "Through an ice pick of abscess reckoning" -- They've been writing lines like that since At the Drive-In, and its formula that pops up pretty often:
Vaguely dangerous implement [icepick] + some sort of wound [abscess] + an accusatory or judgmental noun [reckoning] that sounds good with the first two = An AtDI or TMV lyric
When you have two egomaniacs like Bixler and Lopez constantly trying to one-up each other with ever zanier instrumentation and ever more ostentatious lyrics, you can never hope to have cohesion. The fundamental difference between them and Radiohead, in my opinion, is that while both bands "[gave] the finger to contemporary pop music and any radio potential" I think TMV were simultaneously giving each other the finger as well.
RH, even in its most experimental moments, feels like a band, Frances the Mute sounds like a Santana album featuring Slash that has been given over totally to the forces of ego and entropy.
Frances the Mute has been a fairly polarizing album. Spin gave it a 90. Rollingstone sided with Isamu calling it, "the beastly spawn of Radiohead's OK Computer and Rush's 2112," en route to awarding it four stars. On the other hand, Cokemachineglow gave it a 17 [out of 100] and Pitchfork called it a "homogeneous shitheap of stream-of-consciousness turgidity," giving it a 20.
What do you think? Prog fans, Mars Volta fans, Radiohead fans, anyone. Weigh in on this.
posted by Luke @ 4:21 PM 13 comments
13 Comments:
At 9:32 PM, Mr. Writer said...
Wow, well originally I just kind of praised it as a knee-jerk reaction, but after reading your thoughts . . . you've got good points. Though I'm not sure if there's anything me and you can agree on, if you hate the concept of *solos*, probably my favorite aspect of rock songs :D.
I think my least favorite part of Frances is the first and last 4 minutes of Miranda. Though the middle of it is my favorite TMV song, I don't know what they were thinking with a total of 8 minutes of noise; it's like Cage's 4:33 but rather than being a brave and perverse statement towards all music, it only seems to be a perversion of the oh-dear-are-they-trying-too-hard acoustic trip that comprises the rest of the album.
Also, I feel that The Widow does not flow with the rest of the album -at all-, and feels like a flashy single thrown in randomly among the other tracks which were conceived, at times, in drugs and the basest kind of aural hedonism.
As for the lyrics . . . I'm of the opinion that lyrics that make sense are always better than beautiful lyrics that lack sense. It's ok now and then, but to build a whole album on lyrical dadaism is an easy way to alienate fans. They have such beautiful melodic lines, which are wasted on these poetic flings. They would be much better off telling simple stories and just being plain, though I understand they are more of an experiment than a travelling bard.
In the end though, I don't think Frances is a failure. I think that some things could have gone better, and I think that it's a very strange but ultimately beautiful and worth-while album.
But I'm too forgiving to be a critic anyways.
ps. No, you don't know me. I stumbled upon your blog completely randomly one day and have been reading it since. Cheers :)
At 10:09 PM, Luke said...
Thanks for the comment. Keep it up, God knows this place has been dead lately. None of my regulars comment anymore, need some fresh blood . . . and the old blood too, if you can stop obsessively documenting your children's lives for 15 minutes and read a blog or two [Don, looking at you].
At 10:10 PM, Luke said...
And I think you might be right Writer, the solo thing is tough to get around.
At 1:57 PM, Anonymous said...
Well, I think the reason for the low number of comments is the timing/content of many of your most recent articles. Most of your readers (with my blessing) are not going to listen to the new Mars Volta album. With movies, most of them, if they see the flick at all, it's probably going to be a while after you cover it, so commenting would probably no longer be relevant.
That being said, I haven't heard Frances The Mute either. Which isn't to imply that I heard their first album, I just also haven't heard this new one. I hear/read the phrase 'Mars Volta' so fucking often that I thought that they had descended from heaven to retrieve the faithful. Or something.
Hype is both good and bad. Hype is what usually introduces us to new music in the first place, so it's hard to argue that all hype is bad. But, at least, on these outer fringes of popular music, a lot of the hype I hear is little more than hipster posturing, so the signal to noise ratio is a little low.
Real low, if my anecdotal encounters with The Mars Volta are at all a fair representation of their music-making abilities. I downloaded 'The Widow' about a month ago and was singularly unimpressed (to be fair, your correspondence seems to imply that 'The Widow' isn't like the rest of the album). I would've dismissed the track with a flip of my hand and and a remark of gentle dissaproval, like, "Feh", if the song had terminated, naturally at around the 3:20 mark. But it keeps going. For another two and a half minutes of random (mostly organ) dissonant noises. I don't let my favorite bands get away with that sort of pretentiousness, let alone bands that I'm veritably poised to dislike.
I would also agree (again, on the basis of this one track) that the music revolves around the guitar more than is pleasant or 'band' like. Not to say that the music uses the guitar too prominently, but, rather, that much of the music seems to exists just to get us to another guitar solo. Unlike you, I like some guitar solos. Revel in them, even. What I don't like are Slash-style speed metal-esque guitar solos. Rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm pretty sure that I've heard another Mars Volta track or two, but I'm not positive, and the fact that I can't quite remember indicates that, if I did hear some more of their music, it didn't have me leaping off my seat.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous said...
Oh, and, also, to address the thesis, I don't believe The Mars Volta are the next Radiohead, neither aurally nor conceptually. Mostly because I don't hate Radiohead. In fact, I rather like them. I guess I don't really hate The Mars Volta either, but I fail to see any criteria under which such a comparison would meet with my approval.
--Mike Sheffler
... turning to the 3-D map, we see an unmistakable cone of ignorance
At 5:02 PM, Don Sheffler said...
Yeah, I've been pretty BAD about commenting the last couple of months, what with my business acting like a real business this year. I don't even have time to obsessively document the life of one of my kids, let alone all of them.
Busy = Boring = You Don't Want Comments From That Place.
BUT I visit your blog every day - too many times per day actually. And Mr. Baumgarten, your posting frequency this last few months has been lacking.
Now, to The Mars Volta, I honestly don't know their work. Can't comment this time. Well I can talk about Radiohead, but can't do any comparison, so I'll skip it.
At 12:32 PM, radio tinman said...
I think that to say TMV is overindulgent and that Radiohead are just being artists is missing the point. Artists as a group are overindulgent. Art in it's very nature is indulgent. It's self-expression. A one man/woman view of the world. We think art is either good or bad based on whether an artists view coincides with our own. So I find something in both Radiohead's and TMV's view that I identify with and therefore am a fan of both bands.
At 12:50 PM, Luke said...
Tinman,
In not paying close enough attention to what kind of over-indulgence I spoke of, I think you have actually missed the point.
Indulgence is not indulgence is not indulgence. There are different objects of indulgence. As I tried to make clear, I believe there is indulgence of artistry and indulgence of ego. With Radiohead it's the former, with TMV and probably At the Drive-In--with their amazing implosion around the time of Relationship of Command--I believe it is the latter.
Hints of it surfaced on Deloused in the Comatorium and before that on the DeFacto release [though I like both those albums].
Frances the Mute, in my opinion, exposed it clearly for exactly what it was.
At 5:09 PM, rochey said...
when i think of mars volta. i think vagina.
At 5:13 PM, s1mpL3 p1@n 1s th3 rOxxOrs! said...
Mmm..yeah..oh baby..
Girl..When I think about you..I think of one thing..and you know what that is..
Only think of one thing
I lock my door
Get down on the floor
and I rub one out
I sit back in my chair
Like I just don't care
and I rub one out
When I'm feelin lonely
and I want you to hold me
I rub one out, yeah
Oh oh
Chorus
Rub one out
hey don't be shy
(girl don't be shy)
Rub one out
girl, don't ask me why
(Don't ask me why)
Rub one out and I'll grab my crotch
(Grab my crotch)
Rub one out
Do you want to watch me?
When I'm alone
and you're on the phone
I rub one out
Rub one out
When I'm feelin hot
and I'm all in a knot
I rub one out
So baby don't be shy
Don't ask why
I rub one out
babbyyy, yeah
CHORUS
Girl I wanna get inside you
All my dreams to get beside you
Ooh leave a message besides my machine
Somethin warm and sexy
and I'll rub one out cos that's the way it affects me, babe
It's not enough kissing and stuff
So I rub one out
When you're not here
and I want you near
I rub one out
Chorus
At 5:18 PM, whitney said...
hey luke. laura thinks you are gay. just a heads up.
At 5:30 PM, Faythe said...
when rochey says "vagina" he doesnt REALLY mean vagina. what he means is that, although it's certainly no delouced, frances the must is still worth the $10 that you'd have to pay for it in a bestbuy. sure, a few of the songs are JUST guitar solos, but for the most part a lot of the music is salvageable, if not incredible. simply the fact that the band refused to use traditional track-counting should be enough for some people to at least poke their heads in on a few songs. cygnus, miranda, and multiple spouse wounds were DEFINITELY eargasmic clarification to those who were previously unfortunate enough to have not heard such conniption-inducing poetic blasphemy in motion. the widow was more mellow, and, as writer said, didnt really fit in with the rest of the album. however,in the end it's still a worthwile song. i just saw tham at the palladium underground on monday, and i'll tell ya what, it was one hell of a show. although they DID seem a little too egocentric, it was almost as if their egocentricity was justified by their unbelievable head-bursting orgasm music. the ideas are origninal and have an off-beat kindof perfection that i think only TMV can achive. i give frances the mute 4/5 stars (delouced was 5/5 ;))
At 5:35 PM, hjkl;' said...
,
,
,
,
o
p
j
n
lkkl
fyhgvkbjnlm
l
l
l
l
lll
lll
l
ll
l
ll
0
00
0000
0
0
0
000
00
0
00
0
0000
000
000
00
00
00
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
00
0\0
0
kl
l
ol
ol
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o
p
p
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p
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p
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p
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kkkkkk
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k heil hitler
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William Saletan spins a hell of a fossil record metaphor in his description of the evolution of Intelligent Design theo...
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Brazil is now the first country to decline a US grant for AIDS relieve because US money requires that the recieving cou...
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after the lecture the talk to her
all santana guitar solo are belong to the mars volta. you are SUCH A DOUCHE
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